Forum posts to 'Getting the most from ithlete'

Holiday ithlete readings

Darren — Sun, 05 Sep 2010 17:55:14 +0100

I expected my holiday HRV readings to rocket especially as they were so low before I left - not because of training but because of trying to sort out so many things with work before being able to take the holiday! Drove down through France and was very low - possibly dehydration and just stress of driving on French motorways! Settled down after about a week but could not train any more than normal and then high towards the. Rested the day before leaving and then very low (at 5am) on the day of leaving and the day after returning. Glad I have taken the gadget with me but was hoping for a big up!

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Re: Recording heart rate while exercising

Goldrig — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:32:32 +0100

Hi Guys,

This sounds like just what I need. I have been using my Sunnto HRM for a few years and this looks like the next logical step. I am dying to purchase the updated dongle with the HRM software please please please let me know when I can get hold of it !

John

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Re: New HR monitor makes more sense of readings

treckman — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:04:17 +0100

Hi, thank you Mike for your input, I have just got my new strap and will be using it tomorrow. I will let other members know how I get on. James

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Re: New HR monitor makes more sense of readings

Mike — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:41:47 +0100

I started off using an old Polar material strap, and was getting unusual readings quite regularly. So I bought a new Polar one (the one recommended on this site) and use it only for my HRV measurement each day. I've now been using this for nearly three months and am starting to build up a good history of data which ties in well to my training load. I take my reading as soon as I wake up in the morning, and that seems to work well for me.

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Re: New HR monitor makes more sense of readings

treckman — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:43:45 +0100

Hi Simon, I would also like to add that I seem to be getting better readings on mornings when I have trained than my rest days, I have order a new strap. Thank you for your help. James

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Re: New HR monitor makes more sense of readings

treckman — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:32:13 +0100

Hi Simon, thank you for your reply. I am going to change my monitor strap and see what happens. I have spoken to you before about big losses and gains regarding my hrv. I have a low resting pulse which can be lower than 50bpm.I was taking my readings laying down, and decided to start again. Now I have a very good routine in the morning standing. I have down-loaded your guide and read up on parasympathetic fatigue, which I found very interesting, and feel that 15 years ago I had this condition due to stress/workload/ travelling etc... I purchase the ithlete for this reason, to stop myself over-training. The day in question my HR was high and no red warnings. I will try the new strap and give you feedback on my progress. Thanks James

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Re: New HR monitor makes more sense of readings

moderator — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:47:01 +0100

Hi James. Thanks for your post and just a couple of comments.
Firstly on the countdown - the reading takes just under a minute, and does indeed always start with 55 - it's actually 7 complete breathing cycles of 8 seconds each.
Secondly, a new strap could make a difference if the skin contacts are no longer reliable. Such a strap can still appear to work fine with a heart-rate monitor because these average 5 or more beats to produce a reading, whereas accurate HRV depends on the timing of every single heart beat.
Thirdly, when you got an unexpectedly high reading, was it accompanied by a red Daily Change indication or an unusually low HR? if so, it could be an early sign of parasympathetic fatigue. There is no standard test for this, but I have included a test in ithlete that I hope to improve over time, so it would be interesting to see your last week's data if you want to send it to me at ithlete.support@myithlete.com I will happily look at it and give you feedback. Simon.
More on parasympathetic fatigue in Dr Phil Maffetone's section in the ithlete Users Guide at www.myithlete.com/download-ithlete-users-guide

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Re: New HR monitor makes more sense of readings

treckman — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:37:04 +0100

Hi, I have made most of the mistakes that other member have made, laying down taking readings and so on. Now like you I have a very good routine in the morning. I am still finding that my readings are erratic. Your message interested me as I have owned my monitor and strap for longer than I can remember. The strap works fine with my pulse monitor, which I use every time I go out with no problems. I went on a hard ride, did not sleep well and did not feel good in the morning but got a reasonable and unexpectedly high reading taking all into consideration. I have also notice that the count-down from 60 jumps straight to 55, when taking a reading, has anybody else had this happen? I am going to buy a new monitor+strap and see what happens. James

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Re: Huge Variation In Consecutive Readings

moderator — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:55:35 +0100

We've just finished the first version of the ithlete Users Guide, which is now available at www.myithlete.com/download-ithlete-users-guide

This contains a number of tips on getting consistency with your HRV readings, particularly when you first start to use ithlete.

If you are wondering whether the source of the HRV variation is the app, then wear a wrist HRM at the same time, picking up the same signal.
If your heart rate is varying between measurements, then your HRV will likely be varying even more, since it is a much more sensitive measure.

The trick is really to find the right point in your morning routine. For me, getting out of bed and doing the measurement straight away before I've woken up properly works best, but I know for other people, after a little stretching or walking around the house is their best time.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Huge Variation In Consecutive Readings

jazz — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:01:42 +0100

I have also spent some time doing 'experiments' by taking a number of consecutive readings in the same position, same breathing etc. and very often the variability is higher than I see from day to day and after very different training periods. How can I analyse the day to day changes if the baseline seems so variable. What am i doing wrong?

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Huge Variation In Consecutive Readings

Chief — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:26:39 +0100

Today I took multiple consecutive readings in the same position (standing) with the same midset/breathing pattern/etc. and the HRV measurements ranged from 50 - 74.

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Excellent service

aibbott — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 10:55:21 +0100

Hi All,

I have been using my ithlete for over 6 months now and find it superb. I have to also say that the help and feedback I have had from Lindy in the office has been excellent.

Thank you!

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New HR monitor makes more sense of readings

scott — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:10:12 +0100

I thought this might be worth noting for new users who don't seem to be getting the readings they expect.

I had 3 HR straps at home but the only one I used regularly was my digital garmin (which is incompatible) - the other two were very old but still seemed to work although they had a tendencey to suddenly not seem to pick up the heart beat and then pick it up again. This resulted in the valid variability score in the top right hand corner on the ithlete app going to red a number of times during the minutes test. (sound familiar to anyone?). This happened despite moistening contact, moving receiver closer, making strap tighter etc etc. I often got the erratic beat warning and had to redo the test a few times before I got a score. I did however think that if it gave me a valid score at the end, then there must have been enough valid variability data for it to be correct.

Anyway. I've been using the ithlete and put in some high intensity sessions which were not reflected the next day in HR variability. I know I'm burnt out today from a race last night but HR variability still says I'm ok. Today though, I got a new monitor- the other ones I had just seemed too unreliable. I went for a Polar HR monitor with built in batteries. Downside being that when the batteries are gone they're gone. However, in my experience it seems changing the batteries can keep your monitor going, perhaps longer than it should do- certainly my HR straps were not consistent. From using a new monitor I realise how much more reliable a signal I get. The valid HR number (top right corner) only turns red once or twice in a minute now. My reading this morning does indeed tell me I'm in need of rest.

I would guess that the majority of my readings have been incorrect up till now due to old HR straps- I would say if you're getting the 'erratic HR- do reading later' warning, and your HR strap is old, then it't probably time for a new one- sounds obvious but when experimenting with a new monitor costs money then a few people might be less inclined.

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Re: Tips on performing the daily measurement

moderator — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 15:24:08 +0100

Hi Darren

Your high HRV scores and low resting HR indicate that you're a fit guy, so I would definitely recommend you to do the test standing up if you can.
Remember it's not the absolute score that's important for detecting the impact of fatigue and recovery, it's the changes from one day to the next and the average trend line (the solid blue line on the chart).

Similarly, the exact time of the test is not important - what matters is that it's a convenient moment in your morning routine when you feel relaxed and that you can repeat every day and stick to. The time you suggest sounds perfect for those reasons.
Regarding the amber traffic light you had today - looks like you recovered pretty well after the short fast run, back to an HRV over 90. Therefore the score you got today after the 4hr run of 87.1 indicates a first day of significant fatigue, which will give you an amber - ie you should not do a very long or intense training session, but you don't have to take a complete rest day. If your score is low tomorrow, then you will get a red, indicating that the fatigue has started to become cumulative, and that your body needs more time to recover.
On this last point, I'm just finishing a free booklet on training with HRV that will be downloadable from this site, and that will give tips on both interpreting your results and speeding up recovery.

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Re: Breathing with the lungs

moderator — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:54:13 +0100

Hi Steven (Sashen)

What's really important is consistency - research has shown multiple times that the reliability of HRV measurements is much improved when a 'paced breathing protocol' as it's known, is used. It does not really matter if you don't fully exhale and inhale during the time the animation takes - just breathe as deeply as you can without forcing breath in and out. Even if it isn't the maximum your lungs can do, the breathing rate is still quite slow, and should feel relaxing in practice.

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Re: Tips on performing the daily measurement

Darren — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 07:40:17 +0100

Hi. I've read the reply on standing up to take the measurement but am still a bit confused. Should I be getting into a position where the score comes out highest (which for me is sitting) or should I be standing to give lower reading? I have been sitting which gives a higher score and lower HR. Also I have found that if I do it first thing before getting up it is not my best score - I don't drink caffeine but do get up have a drink of water and move around a little (maybe bit of stretching) and use the loo. After that seems to give highest score on HRV. My readings for this week are

HRV HR
90.5 42
90.1 45.4
90.2 44.1
87.7 44.5
91.6 47.5
87.1 43.9

The first one below 90 was after doing short fast run the day before. The last one (today's) is after a 4 hour run yesterday. I was hoping for a red but came out amber.

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Re: Recording heart rate while exercising

moderator — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:56:32 +0100

Hi Alan

Yes, indeed, ithlete HRM has been submitted for approval and I hope to go live in the UK first at beginning of Sept.

I will send out more details in a couple of weeks.

Simon.

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Re: Recording heart rate while exercising

Alan — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:27:13 +0100

Hi. Is there an ETA on this yet or any way to sign up for a notification to be sent when it is released?

Thanks

Alan

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Re: Tips on performing the daily measurement

sashen — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:08:26 +0100

Here's what may sound like an odd question:

The display says "breathe deeply."

Well, should I be taking deep breaths or taking normal-ish breaths timed to the display?

FWIW, I have to speed up my breathing in order to match the display.

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Re: Development Requests...

Mark — Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:48:07 +0100

I agree with Ash on items 1, 2 & 3.

My additonal request would be that I could "disable" or "gray out" an active reading instead of deleting it. And then later, change my mind and "enable" it again.

Thanks,
Mark

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Re: Development Requests...

moderator — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:19:20 +0100

Hi Ash

Thanks for the feedback. It's great to see the Forum getting to the stage where we are having these kind of discussions!

I have had many requests for csv export from email over the past couple of weeks. It is in development, and I hope to have it released before end of this summer.
This will let you analyse data in Excel / Numbers / OpenOffice etc, and also line it up with other training log information. It will also create a text backup, although the apps SQLite database is already backed up by iTunes when you sync.

The suggestions on formatting the Edit view also make sense - does anyone object to Ash's suggestions of reverse time & date presentation, or graying out saved readings that are not the first in the day?

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Re: HRV number meaning

moderator — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:45:20 +0100

Hi Simon

ithlete measures the R-R interval (ie the time between the sharp spikes on the ECG) precisely in milliseconds, calculates HRV parasympathetic parameters rMSSD and Poincare SD1 (they are the same measure with a scaling difference), then log transforms & scales the result. I can't disclose the exact formula until the patents are published, but to give you an idea, an rMSSD of 25ms (SD1 17.5ms) will be 65 on the ithlete scale, and rMSSD of 55ms will be 80 on the ithlete scale.

The US study 'Relation of High Heart Rate Variability to Healthy Longevity' is available for free viewing at: http://www.ajconline.org/article/PIIS0002914909028525/fulltext
For those who don't have time to read it, the main conclusion is that: "healthy longevity depends on preservation of autonomic function, in particular, HRV–parasympathetic function, despite the early age-related decrease". That reinforces the value of keeping your HRV going up not only as an athlete, but as someone who wants to live a long & active life!

Hope this helps.

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Re: HRV number meaning

Simon — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 05:40:24 +0100

That kind of answers MY question, but maybe you could expand a little....

so the HRV number that ithlete generates - is this an actual true value in milliseconds that we can cross-reference with scientific studies?

And could you supply the refence for the Californian study?

Thanjs,
Simon.

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Development Requests...

bluewomble — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:00:14 +0100

Hi,
I've got a few (hopefully small) development requests and couple of larger requests.

Most of the small requests concern the 'Edit' screen:
1. Could we have the data sorted by reverse chronological order by default (so the newer values are at the top rather than the bottom)?
2. Would it be possible to have the columns sortable (by tapping on them)? A second tap would reverse the sort order.
3. Only the first reading from each day is used on the chart -- could any other readings on the edit screen be shown in grey rather than black to make it clear that they do not feature on the chart?

Also, would it be possible to have some high resolution icons and graphics? Not a high priority, but it'd be good for it to look nicer on the iPhone4.

It might be nice to be able to view the data in Excel (where I can better analyse it) -- The easiest way I can think of doing this would be to have an 'Export' button on the iPhone app (possibly on the 'Edit' screen) which would email a CSV file dump of the data to a specified email address -- this could then easily be read into Excel (or your preferred spreadsheet application) and from there you could do whatever you wanted with the data.

Finally, I was wondering if it'd be good to be able to loo k at the data in a histogram view. You'd take the last 3 month's worth of data and draw a histogram showing the number of days at each HRV value (or range of HRV values) (I'm guessing it'd look a bit like a normal distribution) and highlight where the current reading is (along with the current weekly and monthly average). It might help to give a better indication of where your current value is compared with recent history.

Hope that all makes sense, but let me know if you have any questions...

Thanks for a great app -- so far, I'm just at the data gathering stage, but it's really interesting to see the effect of training (and late nights / too many beers).

Cheers,
Ash.

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Re: HRV number meaning

moderator — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:31:51 +0100

According to an HRV study done recently on 300+ athletic & non-athletic people from ages 15 - 90 in California, the average value for a 52 yr old would be 60 in ithlete units, and 80 will put you in the top 2% of your age group!
Having said that, I have a couple of very fit cycling buddies who are in their early forties, and regularly getting scores of 90.
I think you are doing really well with that average reading, and I don't know how much further it can be improved.
There is a relation between the average ithlete reading and aerobic fitness (VO2 max), so after the competitive season, you can see how much the average goes up during endurance base building.

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Re: HRV number meaning

treckman — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 19:31:17 +0100

Hi, and thank you for your reply. I am 52 and was wondering what would be a good reading to aim for, and improve on my 80. Thanks again Jimmy

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Re: HRV number meaning

moderator — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 22:18:00 +0100

Having only used ithlete for a week, it's early days, but it sounds like your usual reading is about 80. That's a good high reading & indicates you have a high level of aerobic fitness.
A drop of 18 is quite large, and could have been caused by the ride, though you don't say how intensive the 18m was. It could also be that you did not sleep that well the night after the ride (eg if the back injury is still bothering you a little), or there was some other source of stress that added to the drop.
The good news is that you took notice of the drop & recovered within 1 day of rest.
Over the next few weeks you will get a better feel for what kind of drops / gains are to be expected in your particular case. We're all different - for instance a drop of 5 or 6 is quite significant for me, but my normal level is also lower at about 65. I hope this helps & thanks very much for sharing the feedback.

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HRV number meaning

treckman — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:31:00 +0100

Hi, I am really please with my ithlete, I have been only using it for a week, but already I have found it very useful. I would just like to ask a question about my hrv reading. My first reading was 79.5, then I went training on my racing bike. The next day my hrv had dropped by 5 but the following day it was 80. Then 3 days later I went out on my mountain bike over the forest and completed 18 miles. I have not been out on my mountain bike due to a back injury. The next morning I had a hrv of 62 which was a drop of 18. Is this normal to have such a large drop? I rested all the next day and the following morning I had a hrv reading of 82.5.

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low reading

treckman — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:28:26 +0100

Hi, I am really please with my ithlete, I have been only using it for a week, but already I have found it very useful. I would just like to ask a question about my hrv reading. My first reading was 79.5 then I went training on my racing bike. The next day my hrv had dropped by 5 but the following day it was 80. Then 3 days later I went out on my mountain bike over the forest and completed 18 miles. I have not been out on the mountain bike due to a back injury. The next morning I had a hrv of 62 which was a drop of 18. Is this normal to have such a large drop? I rest all the next day and the following morning I had a hrv reading of 82.5.

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Re: iOS 4 compatible?

Mark — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:31:37 +0100

I bought my iPod touch 8GB at the end of May just so I could run ithlete. So it may be the newer model.

I finally told iTunes that I didn't want to update and not to bother me about it anymore. Not interested in being an early adopter after hearing your war story. Maybe later.

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