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Forum » Getting the most from ithlete » hrv and heart rate
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| Author | Topic: hrv and heart rate | 458 Views |

22 October 2011 at 10:36am
I've beeb advised to use ithlete by my cardiologist, I currently suffer paroxysmal atrial fibrillation and may need another ablation; my problem at present is very stressful work and insomnia which obviously stops me training well- I usually cycle 4 times per week at sub to super threshold intensities up to 2 hours and probably between 4 and 6 hours per week- but I seem to have a correlation between heart rate and hrv; if my heart rate is higher during measurement then my hrv is lower, is this always the case? Also, I think the hrv seems to reflect my stress and fatigue as at present it is between mid 50s and mid 60s most of the time despite my fitness being quite competitive in the summer. As a teacher/head of sixth form september/october is a bad time for me!

23 October 2011 at 8:45pm Last edited: 23 October 2011 8:51pm
Hi JD, and welcome to the ithlete forum.
Thanks for the post - there are several interesting points I would like to comment on.
Your HRV numbers between mid 50s & 60s are not disastrously low, but are as you say lower than would normally be expected from someone who competes frequently. People who are frequently stressed are described as 'sympathetic dominant' because their 'fight or flight' adrenaline system is constantly activated. This does impact heart rate positively and HRV negatively, as you have observed. In a natural state, people can get stressed for a short while, then the parasympathetic branch of the nervous system becomes dominant again.
Exercise is a good way of restoring the balance, especially training below lactate threshold. The Maffetone (www.philmaffetone.com/aerobic.cfm) methods and 180 HR formula will help develop the parasympathetic nervous system to restore the balance and raise your HRV. Some people (including myself) have found Yoga type 'belly breathing' a very good stress antidote. There are several free apps that show you Pranayama breathing. This made a 5 pt difference to my HRV over a period of 6wks.

24 October 2011 at 9:21pm
Hi
that's really interesting and thanks for your reply. Several points I'd like to discuss. Atrial Fibrillation in athletes is predominantly 'vagal' or parasympathetic and indeed I have suffered AF as a result of this but 'adrenal' or 'sympathetic' AF is what seems to have got me now due to aforesaid work stress and constantly 'fighting' belligerent teenagers.` I have trained at higher intensities this year and shorter durations so maybe that is a problem-I'm not a huge competitor really but train quite hard and know I'm not bad compared to other recreational athletes my age when I do compete but again work limits this. Would you say then that I should train below threshold most of the time? Furthermore, should I restrict myself to 'aerobic' i.e. Maffetone as a possible way of restoring parasympathetic tone? 6 weeks? And can this restore balance because I never realised that and it is quite a revelation for me. Alternatively, could I do lots of sub threshold work 85%- 90% of max heart rate or would this risk a 'fight' response or over stretching adrenals? I ask this because I like this 'Sweet Spot' work as Coggan advocates ( 85-95 % of one hour threshold power) as it gets me quite fit in a short time and isn't mentally destructive like pure threshold work. Incidentally,
it's half term holiday and after 2 days rest , some quality sleep and a hard sweet spot ride yesterday my HRV was between 74 and 80 this morning so work is my problem! If only i could do another job but I'm clueless outside the classroom!

24 October 2011 at 9:37pm
I saw the post by the other person wanting to compare sweet spot and traditional base training and although I'm no physiologist I think sweet spot is effective because it trains slow twitch and the oxidative fast twitch muscle fibres at once where as traditional base would target slow twitch only and prioritise fuel utilisation but sweet spot will target muscular endurance and be more intensive and strenuous on cardiovascular system. Not a very convincing explanation but an attempt to explain. Ultimately, sweet spot makes you go faster quicker but may not give you as wide a base of fitness but for short distance time trialling say is very time effective.

25 October 2011 at 7:34pm
AF in athletes is thought to be caused (or exacerbated at least) by the heart chamber enlargement that comes from high volume training. This, as you say, is often associated with parasympathetic dominance that leads to very low resting HR eg below 40 bpm. You don't say what your resting HR is by the way, but with the HRV values you quoted, I'm assuming that it's not quite that low.
I have a good friend & long time ithlete user who has a similar condition to you, and we have looked for patterns in his HRV that can predict episodes of AF, but have not managed to. He is fairly sure he gets more episodes when stressed from life situations like yourself.
I'm not a doctor, so you need to get advice on the type of training best suited to your condition from your Cardiologist. HRV is a great diagnostic tool and narrowing down the sources of your stress can only help in the process of reducing them (or their impact). I do want to recommend Yogic breathing - I was very skeptical until I tried it myself!
Regarding the effectiveness of Sweet Spot training, Stephen Seiler's review of intensity training for endurance athletes at http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm is the best summary I know of, and concludes that there is no substitute for putting in many many hours & miles of aerobic training if you are going to reach your full potential. Of course the real question for those of us that have to fit in jobs & families is what is the most time efficient way to train & I think SST may have a very valid role.

25 October 2011 at 8:05pm
Fantastic, I'm really impressed by your help and advice. My resting HR is 48 now but usually goes down to 42 and before ablation surgery sub 40 bpm.My Cardiologist says I should do what I want but long exhausting training where dehydration and glycogen depletion is severe I veer away from at the moment hence Sweet Spot. I did speak to my cardiologist last week and he says a second ablation should give me the chance 'to put the miles in' and not worry about AF but I just want to enjoy riding the best i can and stay healthy hence Ithlete which has revealed how work stress is my biggest performance negator by far and prevents hard training and brings on AF but the kids need their ipods!! How does your friend cope? Does he compete? Thanks again and I think 2 hour @ 75% HRM might be my winter diet after your advice.

25 October 2011 at 9:54pm
Have you read this....? http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/supply
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